I found this on the www.prewrathrapture.com website….thought you might find it interesting…
March 14, 2007
I would not be commenting on Thomas Ice’s refusal to defend his pretribulational position in a public moderated debate with Cooper if he had simply wrote back to me saying, “Thank you, but I am not interested.” Instead, his ostensible reasons for not debating Cooper and haughty comments about the Prewrath Rapture ensued into a half-dozen-email exchange between Ice and myself. Dr. Ice is Executive Director of The Pre-Trib Research Center
.I am not planning to reproduce our email conversation, but I do want to respond to some of his remarks, which should be instructive to learn who truly desires a God honoring, accurate, Biblical discussion that is for the edification of God’s people.For about twenty years these pretrib writers and teachers such as Tim LaHaye, Renald Showers, Arnold Fruchtenbaum, et. al.
have been creating straw men of the Prewrath Rapture; they cannot even reproduce our charts correctly!These misrepresentations cannot be accounted by simply mistakes. They have had the facts before them for twenty years; not to mention they have been corrected many times. Even in my email exchange with Dr. Ice, he repeatedly referred to the Prewrath position as the “three-quarters” view. I corrected him informing him that is not what the Prewrath view teaches. Yet he continued to use this distorted term to describe the Prewrath view.
There is only one conclusion: they do not desire to properly, honestly, and correctly represent our position. This is very telling. A responsible teacher of God’s Word should represent the other side’s view accurately, and want to engage in the best of arguments that the other side has to offer. Dr. Ice is not willing to do either.
To comment on a few of Dr. Ice’s remarks to me, he writes,
“Why give him [Cooper] any publicity?” and “Tell me why I should give…[Prewrath teachers] our platform.”
Perhaps the reason why Dr. Ice does not want to give him publicity is because Ice’s memory might recall the Rapture debate in Dallas in the late 90′s when Charles Cooper thoroughly dismantled Dr. Mal Couch’s pretribulationism in front of about 700 people in attendance, resulting in Couch unhappily exiting after the debate choosing not to take questions–and Cooper receiving tremendous applause for his Prewrath presentation and people gathering around him after the debate wanting to learn more about the Prewrath position (including the post-trib participant!).
And given that it is pretribbers who are coming over to the prewrath camp, it is odd that Ice would be concerned about “sharing his platform” to prewrathers, since they have been leaping upon the prewrath platform.
“There are no sound exegetical arguments upon which to base the view.”
Thinking people want more than mere assertions, such as that little thing called….support. It is evident that Ice does not want to subject his pretrib views under the scrutiny of a Prewrather.
“We have answered the pre-wrath view in writing many times and yet you and others like you will not pay attention.”
Of course, this is simply absurd. It is prewrathers who have voluminously interacted with all that pretribbers have to offer (something that is not reciprocated). Further, most of the responses that I have read from pretribbers are simply caricatures, strawmen, and ad hominem. Why not attempt to accurately represent the Prewrath position? If the pretrib is supported Biblically, then why the convoluted descriptions of our view. When the pretrib and prewrath views are set side by side, it is the pretrib adherent that will go the direction of choosing prewrath. I have never ever heard of a prewrather going over to the pretrib camp, it is always the other way around.
“If Van Kampen were not a multi-millionaire it is likely that none of us would have ever heard of the view.”
Boy! I have not heard that one before. Of course these types of statements are indicative of those who give desperate, vacuous attempts at discrediting the prewrath view. So all you prewrathers just so you are aware, you did not come to learn the prewrath view from studying your Bible and comparing it with its claims to make sure these things are so. Nope, somehow Van Kampen’s bank account coerced your mind into believing what you do.
Ice and other pretrib teachers’ misrepresentations of the Prewrath position cannot stand up to a public moderated debate under cross-examination. Their straw men would quickly burn before the audience. And in the arena of theological ideas, this can only discredit the pretrib position.
So for the record, Dr. Thomas Ice refuses to defend his pretribulational views in a formal debate under cross-examination with a Prewrather, in this case, Charles Cooper. The debate challenge remains open for Dr. Ice to accept.